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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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 Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Problem is the dude never came back. And he gave up on finding them so easily.
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"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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Nez
Eccentric Papyrus Jockey
Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Bellevue, Ne
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| persian85033 wrote: |
| Problem is the dude never came back. And he gave up on finding them so easily. |
And you have to bring that up. 
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I always thought he shouldn't have given up so easily. Just, oh, they're not here, they're dead, oh well.
_________________
"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11856
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| From what it sounds like in Agrabah, that would probably be the conclusion I'd lead to, too. Where were they going to go? What were they going to do? They could have been somewhere else in the city, but I am guessing the life expectancy of the poor isn't that long. |
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AmethystFae
Portland Princess
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 837
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Iago wrote: |
It's good LM but like Shiera (AG) I don't see Sadira as a villian. Same for Iago. He worked for Jafar yes but he made a drastic change in return of Jafar. Theres another part to Iago you have to see in order to understand but I'm serious. Just because he worked for Jafar, doesn't exactly make him "bad". Jafar had much control over him, and could really hurt him if he wanted to. So of course Iago would do what he had to do to stay on Jafar's good side.
| Nez wrote: |
| Yes, but Cassim is not a villain in the sense that he did what he does because his motivation was to make a better life for his wife and son |
Amen  |
Even in the first movie, there were moments when it showed that Iago is his own...bird and not just some minion who blindly follows. And in the second movie, Jafar said, "If it weren't for me, you'd still be in a cage at the bizaar..." so obviously Jafar purchased Iago, or something, and Iago was just trying to move up in the world, I guess. He certainly didn't want a life of choking down crackers. In fact, I bet he'll never eat another one again.
As for Cassim, he's not evil. End of story. And furthermore, not all villains have to be obsessed with being evil. There is a reason why all villains end up where they are. Nobody is born thinking, "Gee, I wanna be a villain when I grow up!" And the best villains are the ones with depth.
~Hikaru
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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That's just what I think about villains. Maybe Lord Mozenrath should tell us a bit about his childhood.
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"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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AmethystFae
Portland Princess
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 837
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| persian85033 wrote: |
| Well, I always thought he shouldn't have given up so easily. Just, oh, they're not here, they're dead, oh well. |
Well, you never know how easily. Maybe he went back to where they were living and it had burned down. Who knows the extent of his search after that, but maybe he really didn't know where to look. And what's a guy to do when he thinks his wife and son died in a fire?
(This is just my theory.)
~Hikaru
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"HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!" |
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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The thought of a fire never really struck me. Hmm, good theory, though.
_________________
"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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Salukfan
Tiger-Clawed Thief
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1991
Location: Butler, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Problem is the dude never came back. And he gave up on finding them so easily. |
Just my two cents:
My theory is that he may not have wanted to find them again.
He was full of doubt and feelings of worthlessness when he was with his wife and Aladdin. He thought that he could never provide them with enough, unless he had some perfect treasure.
He finds his way to the Forty Thieves, and finds a place where he can be more free. He's able to travel with a group that, for the most part, supports his goals and his quest (depending on when you think he became king, really). He obviously is having fun in KOT, especially during the WTTFT segment.
He may have went back to Agrabah because he felt obligated. He gets there, looks for them where he used to stay, perhaps, doesn't find them, and leaves, fufilling his obligation while at the same time enjoying his life guilt-free.
The loss he feels when describing the incident in KoT could have come on later, as a realization he hit over time, or maybe was partially driven by his frustration over failing to get the treasure he wanted, at that point, for himself. Or, if you're more cynical, it could be that he played it up in order to win sympathy from Aladdin, so Aladdin wouldn't treat him as a villain.
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Salukfan wrote: |
Just my two cents:
My theory is that he may not have wanted to find them again.
He was full of doubt and feelings of worthlessness when he was with his wife and Aladdin. He thought that he could never provide them with enough, unless he had some perfect treasure.
He finds his way to the Forty Thieves, and finds a place where he can be more free. He's able to travel with a group that, for the most part, supports his goals and his quest (depending on when you think he became king, really). He obviously is having fun in KOT, especially during the WTTFT segment.
He may have went back to Agrabah because he felt obligated. He gets there, looks for them where he used to stay, perhaps, doesn't find them, and leaves, fufilling his obligation while at the same time enjoying his life guilt-free.
The loss he feels when describing the incident in KoT could have come on later, as a realization he hit over time, or maybe was partially driven by his frustration over failing to get the treasure he wanted, at that point, for himself. Or, if you're more cynical, it could be that he played it up in order to win sympathy from Aladdin, so Aladdin wouldn't treat him as a villain. |
Oh, God! You're right, though, he did seem pretty happy, and not so determined to change his ways, as Iago convinced him with treasure, while before that, Al couldn't really convince him. And was ready to go for the treasure, even though he was captured by Saluk. And he's all trying to get Aladdin to help him find the treasure.
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"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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AmethystFae
Portland Princess
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 837
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Salukfan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Problem is the dude never came back. And he gave up on finding them so easily. |
Just my two cents:
My theory is that he may not have wanted to find them again.
He was full of doubt and feelings of worthlessness when he was with his wife and Aladdin. He thought that he could never provide them with enough, unless he had some perfect treasure.
He finds his way to the Forty Thieves, and finds a place where he can be more free. He's able to travel with a group that, for the most part, supports his goals and his quest (depending on when you think he became king, really). He obviously is having fun in KOT, especially during the WTTFT segment.
He may have went back to Agrabah because he felt obligated. He gets there, looks for them where he used to stay, perhaps, doesn't find them, and leaves, fufilling his obligation while at the same time enjoying his life guilt-free.
The loss he feels when describing the incident in KoT could have come on later, as a realization he hit over time, or maybe was partially driven by his frustration over failing to get the treasure he wanted, at that point, for himself. Or, if you're more cynical, it could be that he played it up in order to win sympathy from Aladdin, so Aladdin wouldn't treat him as a villain. |
Another good theory. I don't think Cassim was playing up anything, though. I think he really did have regrets.
I'm going to throw out another thing to think about. What about Saluk? I mean, he hated Cassim. Do you think, perhaps, Saluk used to run things before Cassim came into the picture? Or do you have another theory? If you listen to "Are You In Or Out?" it kind of sounds like Saluk did used to be in charge at one time. But, his hatred toward Cassim could be stemmed from something else. Let's hear your ideas!
~Hikaru
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"HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!" |
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Salukfan
Tiger-Clawed Thief
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1991
Location: Butler, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| f you listen to "Are You In Or Out?" it kind of sounds like Saluk did used to be in charge at one time. |
I see Sa'luk as someone who admired the King that came before Cassim, and misses the way things used to me. I also think that Sa'luk was pretty close to the top of the food chain, before Cassim bumped him off and got the kingship.
The way I imagine Sa'luk (and note, this is a fangirl speaking ), his hatred of Cassim is less about him individually and more about what he did to the group. The implenting of the "no injury" rule probably cut the legs out of the style of raids done previously. Cassim's not the type to go into a town and pillage it anyway, and would rather focus on quests done peacefully. Cassim's style was the Forty Thieves were not. I think the idea of the thieves dancing around with pink ribbons and gleefully talking about not brushing their teeth would be horrifying to Sa'luk.
For me, it breaks down to a single, encompassing conflict.
Sa'luk, who values the group as an institution, and wants it to have its successful, violent reputation in tact.
And
Cassim, who values not the group's reputation, but the people who populate the group, and what they want individually.
Two powerful people with these volatile feelings couldn't co-exist forever, and when Cassim saw his grip over the men loosening, he manipuled Aladdin into "killing" Sa'luk, and the plot of KoT moves on.
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Amadou
Prince/Princess
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
Location: Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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wow... time for contest for the most terrifying monster... I'm glad I'm not a kid.
Carpet was evil?!!
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Salukfan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| f you listen to "Are You In Or Out?" it kind of sounds like Saluk did used to be in charge at one time. |
I see Sa'luk as someone who admired the King that came before Cassim, and misses the way things used to me. I also think that Sa'luk was pretty close to the top of the food chain, before Cassim bumped him off and got the kingship.
The way I imagine Sa'luk (and note, this is a fangirl speaking ), his hatred of Cassim is less about him individually and more about what he did to the group. The implenting of the "no injury" rule probably cut the legs out of the style of raids done previously. Cassim's not the type to go into a town and pillage it anyway, and would rather focus on quests done peacefully. Cassim's style was the Forty Thieves were not. I think the idea of the thieves dancing around with pink ribbons and gleefully talking about not brushing their teeth would be horrifying to Sa'luk.
For me, it breaks down to a single, encompassing conflict.
Sa'luk, who values the group as an institution, and wants it to have its successful, violent reputation in tact.
And
Cassim, who values not the group's reputation, but the people who populate the group, and what they want individually.
Two powerful people with these volatile feelings couldn't co-exist forever, and when Cassim saw his grip over the men loosening, he manipuled Aladdin into "killing" Sa'luk, and the plot of KoT moves on. |
True.
| AladdinsGenie wrote: |
| I really don't see Sadira as a villain; just a psycho fangirl with a crush |
Perhaps she should listen to some of the music I listen to
Te quiero tanto tanto tanto
Que te doy tu libertad
_________________
"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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Lord Mozenrath
Apathetic Lord
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 319
Location: The Citadel, The Land of the Black Sands
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Nez wrote: |
| Your pic isn't showing up. |
Sorry about that. I should learn to never link from Animated Lust ever again.
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Well I'd like a Good Laugh too! I'm Laughing already! Hahahahaha!
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