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Fez_Head
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Joined: 10 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Hey Meesh! I just sent you the questions through the private message function on this messageboard. I'm so sorry for their lateness.
To Sinister Cutlass and imekitty, I'm going to send the same questions to you two through the private message function right now. 
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imekitty
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Joined: 07 Oct 2015
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Response sent. Let me know if you didn't get it. |
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Fez_Head
Cave of Wonders Tour Guide
Joined: 10 Oct 2015
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I just got your response now and it's really great. I just want to say that I might not use everything you wrote in my final feature, but I will definitely find a way to incorporate at least some of it into the assignment. Oh, I don't want to sound creepy or anything, but how old are you? Since the feature is about adults, I want to see if there is a difference between the ages of those I interview and their opinions. I seriously hope that didn't have a creepy vibe.
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams |
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imekitty
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, forgot to include that. I'm 27.
And yeah, I wouldn't expect you to use everything. I ramble so much, haha. I just have a lot of feelings! /meangirls reference |
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Fez_Head
Cave of Wonders Tour Guide
Joined: 10 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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That's ok. It happens. I really want to use at least one quote from everyone I speak/write to, but I can't guarantee that since the assignment has a pretty strict word limit. I like your rambling. You make good points when you do
I had an older professor in my first year of university who loved referencing Mean Girls. He even wore a pink dress shirt on a Wednesday. Definitely my favourite prof, by far.
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams |
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imekitty
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Joined: 07 Oct 2015
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Rambling helps me get to the "good" stuff. I've been working on a novel for the past couple years that is over 200k words and still isn't finished. The reason is because I keep writing extra scenes so that I can get better acquainted with my characters and find discover interesting plot points. I'll have to edit out a lot of stuff, but the "rambling" has helped me create a more solid storyline with well-developed characters.
I'm usually more concise when I'm in "academic" mode. My Master's thesis was actually pretty short compared to the average length for a thesis (at least in my department). Perhaps it's because I don't typically let my feelings interfere when I'm writing academic papers.
Mean Girls is a really fun, clever movie. Whenever it's on TV, I almost always end up watching it no matter what point it's at. It's just all good! |
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Fez_Head
Cave of Wonders Tour Guide
Joined: 10 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, 200K words! What is it about? I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it. By "rambling" so to speak, you learn more about the characters as if they were real, which will help with the other elements of the story writing process.
What did you write your Master's thesis on? I found something online about a man currently writing his PhD thesis on the relationship between the Disney and the adult audience AFTER (key word there) I decided on the topic of my feature article. And yes, before you ask, I sent him an email to see if I could interview him too. No response yet, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Also, I've tried to send two pms to Sinister Cutlass, but it doesn't seem to be working. It only says that I've sent one to you and one to Meesh. Any possible ideas why this might be? It keeps saying it was sent successfully, but I don't know what to do. 
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams |
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Sinister Cutlass
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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| @Fez_Head: Don't worry, I got the message. Composing a response now. |
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Fez_Head
Cave of Wonders Tour Guide
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Posts: 280
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Good to hear that you got the message. I'm looking forward to your answers.
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams |
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Sinister Cutlass
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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| imekitty wrote: |
It's definitely a personal opinion. Everyone defines "dark period" in their own way. I'm sure Disney thinks of it as a time when their movies are not successful, so they obviously don't think they're going through one now.
I just feel like Disney hasn't been living up to their potential. It kind of started with Tarzan and has been persisting until today. I know a lot of people really like Big Hero 6, Frozen, Tangled, Wreck-It Ralph, and Zootopia. I like them, too, honestly, but none of those movies feel like Disney to me. They're missing that Disney magic. I remember having high hopes for Princess and the Frog, and I was so disappointed with how it turned out, and since then, I just don't think they've been able to create anything really spectacular. They seem to be too focused on being funny or politically correct or even emotional. They're not just letting their characters and stories blossom and play out on their own. They all seem so...controlled, if that makes sense.
The best example I can give is in Frozen. The antagonist, Hans, was so weak which ended up leading to a weak climax. For whatever reason, Disney decided they wanted to make him "evil." Why? It didn't make any sense. It seemed so fake and contrived. They were trying really hard to teach some sort of weird lesson about how you can't "fall in love at first sight." Okay, well, they could've done that without making him evil. It would've been much more interesting and far more believable if they had made him a normal guy that simply wasn't Anna's true love. When his kiss fails to save her from Elsa's magic (perhaps not because he didn't love her but because Anna had fallen in love with Kristoff instead by this point), that could've set off a chain of events where Hans blames Elsa and thinks that she really did try to hurt Anna leading him to want to kill her not because he's evil but because he's human. The way they did it in the actual movie is kind of lame, honestly, and definitely forced. I don't think it's the way Disney would've handled it in the past. They would've been a lot more creative.
There are examples in the other movies as well, but I'm not going to go through them all (unless you want me to, haha). Suffice it to say that I haven't felt a good amount of magic in a Disney movie in a long time. Perhaps this is just the new Disney, a modern, hip Disney. I still like what they're turning out, but I hope that if they're really going to keep going in this direction that they'll be able to find a new kind of magic just like they did in the late 80s and early 90s. |
This is ultimately a subjective matter, and both of our opinions and interpretations could be backed up with evidence and arguments that make some sense.
I for instance LOVED The Princess and the Frog. Did I like it as much as I liked Aladdin and The Little Mermaid when I was under the age of 10? Probably not, but I sure as hell loved TPatF as an adult (and Aladdin and The Little Mermaid have worn off some of their glow over the decades)! In my opinion, it had all the best features of the early to mid 90s offerings. The visuals of New Orleans and the Bayou were glorious, the villain was sexy and charismatic and scary, Tiana was very easy to respect and very beautiful, Naveen was the most fun prince I've ever seen, the story was sweet, the humor was service-ably good, and the voice work was awesome (I especially enjoyed Dr. Facilier, Tiana, Naveen, and Louis the Alligator). When I watched it, I felt that all I had loved about Disney was finally, at long last, returning again.
It didn't turn out that way. While I think they've been doing better and better... it's in a different way than they used to. Their sensibilities are informed by the 90s classics we enjoyed, but are different in some very good ways. In particular, their stories and scripts are stronger, more clever and insightful, the characters are more complicated with more shades of grey (A++, in my book), and the ethical dilemmas in each film are explored in less simplistic, child-pandering ways. I am very, very excited about this development, because Disney Animation has always known how to provide dramatic circumstances with mind-blowingly beautiful visuals, and they would do well to marry this commitment to visual splendor to a willingness to tell more sophisticated stories, in my opinion. I just watched Big Hero 6 last night, and I think this film represents a strong step towards such stories.
To some degree, I understand your time-decayed ability to be swept off your feet by a Disney animated feature; I have that, too. Around the year 2000, I began to feel very underwhelmed by the studio's output, and I was already lamenting the passing of the good old days. That disillusionment was in place for a long time, and it didn't really disappear until I went and saw Frozen in 2013, and I realized that a new and exciting era had arrived, and so far, it has shown no sign of stopping. My enjoyment of Disney now is not the same kind of breathless enjoyment I had as a child in the early to mid 90s; it is a more sophisticated enjoyment, based on inspired visuals and clever, insightful scripts, and I'm happy to saw that after such a long fallow period in my enjoyment of Disney, I am now on fire about their work once again.
As for the 'too controlled' accusation you level at the current Disney output... I think I can understand where you're coming from on that. Might I suggest that perhaps your age has made you more able to predict the plot developments in their films, or more able to detect any structure/formula in the stories currently being produced? I believe I may be subject to that problem as well. But there is no way around advanced age and intellect. For this reason, I am very glad that Disney Animation has moved past their tired romance and revenge plots of the 90s and is really focusing on story a lot more. I lay all the thanks at John Lasseter's feet. I believe he is as much to thank for this "new golden age" as Howard Ashman and Alan Menken were for the start of the second golden age in 1989, with The Little Mermaid.
As for Hans in Frozen, I disagree with you, but again, mine is only a subjective aesthetic decision. I for one enjoy the attractive villains who seem like nice, straight-forward guys at the start, but actually turn out to be quite clever and conniving in the end. Do I like them as much as I adore the fantastically camp, transparently diabolic, deliciously voiced Jafar, Dr. Facilier, Hades, or Professor Ratigan? No. But I do they think such villains like Hans are actually more realistic (in the way that Frollo was also a more realistic villain). I believe there were plenty of wolves in sheep's clothing among royals of Hans' position. His motivation is easy to understand, based on our common understanding of monarchical history in several countries. I appreciate that aspect of realism to his character. I do also really admire his well-honed control of himself, and his ability to skillfully hide his ambitions from everyone. He is a pretty badass villain in this way. |
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imekitty
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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I really liked Princess and the Frog as well. I was still disappointed with it on a technical level, though. The art was gorgeous, but the music and the characters were quite bland. I really wanted to like Tiana, but she was very two-dimensional (possibly because Disney was too afraid to give her any flaws). I normally really love male characters, but Naveen was also pretty boring for me. Great villain, though. I agree with that.
I liked the characters of the 90s. I find their characters today to also be good, but they are often very forced and contrived. I'm not entirely sure why this is. My only guess is that they are really trying hard to appeal to a modern audience...which is fine.
I don't think my age has anything to do with it. I don't mind predictability in the slightest as long as it's natural. Hans, for instance, was not at all predictable for me. I was completely blindsided when he turned out to be evil. That doesn't make it a good twist, though. It didn't make any sense at all for me. Anyway, there are plenty of simple, predictable stories that I've seen for the first time as an adult that I absolutely loved. I think formulas can be a great thing. It's when you start trying really hard to NOT follow a formula that things start feeling contrived, forced, and confusing. That was one problem I had with PatF. They were trying REALLY hard to do something new and fresh with that story, and it just ended up being a weird mess a lot of the time. I still love it, but I can see why it didn't do as well as Disney hoped it would.
Also, I really like Hans, too. I enjoy the movie overall. I just think Disney essentially forced him to be something that never felt right. I don't really know how to explain it, but characters do have "minds" of their own, and when you try too hard to fit them into a certain mold, the result is usually not good.
Using a non-Disney example, it's like the romance between Hermione and Ron in Harry Potter. J. K. Rowling had this idea from the beginning of the series that those two would end up together, but as the series progressed, the characters took on personalities of their own. Hermione and Ron have no chemistry at all, and it really doesn't make sense that they are together, but Rowling forced them into this role simply because it was something SHE wanted to happen, not something Ron and Hermione "wanted" to happen.
Back to Hans, it's not that he's a bad character. It's just that what Disney did with him is something I would expect from DreamWorks. I expect Disney to be cleverer than that. If they really wanted Hans to be evil, then they needed to make it believable and natural. The way they did it made very little sense and was quite weak. Again, that is NOT to say I don't like him. I'm just a little disappointed because I know Disney is better than that.
But yes, this is all entirely subjective. I think it's great that so many including you feel Disney is in another golden age. It will continue to keep them successful so that they can turn out more great movies. At this point, I don't mind so much what they're creating because none of it is traditionally animated. I was more disappointed with PatF than I normally would've been because I adore traditional animation. I don't care as much for CG animation, so I am able to enjoy those films no matter what flaws they have for the most part. |
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imekitty
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Fez_Head wrote: |
Wow, 200K words! What is it about? I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it. By "rambling" so to speak, you learn more about the characters as if they were real, which will help with the other elements of the story writing process.
What did you write your Master's thesis on? I found something online about a man currently writing his PhD thesis on the relationship between the Disney and the adult audience AFTER (key word there) I decided on the topic of my feature article. And yes, before you ask, I sent him an email to see if I could interview him too. No response yet, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Also, I've tried to send two pms to Sinister Cutlass, but it doesn't seem to be working. It only says that I've sent one to you and one to Meesh. Any possible ideas why this might be? It keeps saying it was sent successfully, but I don't know what to do. :? |
Haha, it sounds so stupid when I summarize my novel. :b It's a young adult modern-day fantasy story. One reason it's so long is because I'm basically telling the same story from two different points of view. I'm not sure how it would work if I were to publish it. There's no way anyone would accept something this long for a debut novel. I guess I'll worry about that when I get there. I think I only have 20k words until I finish...of of course, that's what I said 20k words ago. D:
My Master's thesis wasn't that great. I originally had a really cool idea, but it was taking way too long and was far too complicated, so I ended up making a switch because I wanted to graduate before I used up all my thesis credits and had to pay higher tuition. Basically, I looked at how comfortable native speakers in America feel when speaking to Spanish and Chinese speakers at various level of English proficiency. What was kind of interesting was that everyone preferred the Spanish speakers at intermediate and advanced proficiencies, but they all preferred the Chinese speakers at the novice proficiency. Interesting implications to made from that!
Someone's writing a dissertation on this subject? I so wanna read that! |
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Fez_Head
Cave of Wonders Tour Guide
Joined: 10 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it sounds stupid at all. There are actually quite a lot of YA novels that are set in the modern world, but have a fantastical element to them. And I've read a few novels that alternate the point of view, so it could definitely work, if done right. You could always have the point of view of one person start where the other individual's point of view finished. That way the reader is getting a new set of eyes to analyze the story through, without having to reread what literally just happened, only from this new character's perspective.
That's a really interesting topic for a thesis. It would be rather fascinating to look at what levels English speakers prefer speaking to other non-native English speakers.
That guy's thesis idea sounds so cool. I literally came across it one day when I was searching adults and Disney for my news article and sufficiently freaked out. In a good way, I promise My journalism prof is always telling us that our feature articles should be relevant to the world today and this guy literally cemented that, which made me super happy. I would love to read it when he's finished, but he's only in the beginning stages of working on it. There is a questionnaire posted online that's free for anyone to take. At least, I think so, but he lives in the UK so I don't know if it is exclusive to only people who live there. Just look up James Mason PhD Disney and you'll find it. I plan on doing it someday this week, if I can. I've also emailed a Disney vlogger by the name of Keith Lapinig for this assignment with a few questions, so hopefully I get a response from him in a few days with answers.
Oh, I just wanted to write this little note because Sinister Cutlass was wondering about their real name being used in my article. The point of the article is to write it for my professor (duh!), but she would also like us to take it out of the classroom and possibly publish it. I'm telling you, as well as Meesh if she reads this note, that if you are uncomfortable with this, please let me know and I will not use your statements in my article. I completely understand if you feel that way because I do not want anyone to feel uncomfortable with me writing this assignment. Just let me know if you are ok, or not ok, with this, so I know. I will still be eternally thankful for you three even wanting to help little ol' awkward me, even if you decide to not want your real name published.
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams |
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Sinister Cutlass
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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| @Fez_Head I feel perfectly comfortable with you using any of my statements in your report, but if you're going to publish the report, I think I'd prefer you only use my first name and age, but not my full name. Would that work? |
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Fez_Head
Cave of Wonders Tour Guide
Joined: 10 Oct 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Sinister Cutlass! Thank you for being so understanding. If it is ok with you, I will ask my professor if it is ok if I use only your first name and age since she is the one marking the assignment or, if that is unacceptable, perhaps I could change your name (many magazines do that and they just write at the end or beside the name that it has been changed for anonymity reasons). If that is accepted by my prof, would that be ok with you? I will speak to her tomorrow and when I get her response, I will post it here and we will determine what to do next. I read your responses and I would love to find a way to use them, but your desires are far more important to me.
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