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Edward Falcon
Sultan
Joined: 14 Oct 2015
Posts: 305
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 Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:03 pm Post subject: Marvel makes Captain America into a villain |
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So the new Captain America comic book, Steve Rogers #1 was released this week, and Marvel made one of their biggest mistakes ever with this. They made it so Captain America had actually been an undercover agent for HYDRA the whole time. What were they smoking when they agreed to this?? They have Spidey and MJ break up, they reinvent Thor as a female, and now this!! Why does Marvel keep spitting in our faces like this? This is exactly why I stopped following the comic books and started only sticking to the films. Speaking of films, this is happening at the height of Captain America:Civil War's enormous box office success! More about how this monstrosity came to be here:
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/25/captain-america-villain-hydra-nick-spencer-tom-brevoort
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11856
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I hardly think taking a character made by two Jewish men as a super-powered political figure standing against antisemitism in the 1940s being revealed to work for an organization definitely modeling itself off Nazism, is on the same level as genderswapping a male character to a woman as a way to show the traits that make them beloved and popular in the first place don't belong exclusively to men despite hundreds of years of stories depicting otherwise. Like, if I had to pick a spit in the face offense, it's totally gonna be the first one, no contest. |
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Edward Falcon
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Joined: 14 Oct 2015
Posts: 305
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| AladdinsGenie wrote: |
| I hardly think taking a character made by two Jewish men as a super-powered political figure standing against antisemitism in the 1940s being revealed to work for an organization definitely modeling itself off Nazism, is on the same level as genderswapping a male character to a woman as a way to show the traits that make them beloved and popular in the first place don't belong exclusively to men despite hundreds of years of stories depicting otherwise. Like, if I had to pick a spit in the face offense, it's totally gonna be the first one, no contest. |
Alright, I can see some of my post was taken out of context a bit. I was in no way saying that females shouldn't be allowed to enjoy something that is targeted mostly at the male crowd. But it's not like Thor announced in the comics that he wanted to undergo a sex change operation. They just turned him into a woman from out of nowhere. I mean what's next? Are they gonna make it so Spider-Man was Uncle Ben's murderer all along? Are they gonna make it so Tony Stark had secretly been supplying Afghanistan with funds to build weapons of mass destruction? |
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Meesh
Magic Carpet
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 3615
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I mean they're comic books with a lot of different universes and twist and turns, so I keep an open mind with a gender swap, coming out, break-up, etc. But this is too far for sure.
I get them wanting to be shocking, and I can maybe be okay with a "he was evil all along" reveal from somebody else, like somebody who wasn't created to combat anti-semitism and to promote unity and values in America. And to make him more than evil, but A NAZI, is something I would expect more from a tasteless internet troll.
Also, to align somebody who represents the best of American values with a villain who ACTUALLY EXISTED (I mean Hitler, not Hydra obviously) and is considered among the worst villains to ever live, whose actions orphaned and/or affected people still living today and their loved ones... That's not shocking, it's hurtful.
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Last edited by Meesh on Sat May 28, 2016 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Meesh
Magic Carpet
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 3615
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| I mean what's next? Are they gonna make it so Spider-Man was Uncle Ben's murderer all along? Are they gonna make it so Tony Stark had secretly been supplying Afghanistan with funds to build weapons of mass destruction? |
Still not the same thing.
For example, Tony Stark, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't created by victims of terrorism to combat extremist views. If he were, then yeah, your argument would compare.
I think you're more complaining about being annoyed major changes out of nowhere, and you have the right to, but we are complaining about social implication. A gender swap, while yes is out of the blue, doesn't offend the history of a persecuted people.
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11856
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Edward Falcon wrote: |
| Alright, I can see some of my post was taken out of context a bit. I was in no way saying that females shouldn't be allowed to enjoy something that is targeted mostly at the male crowd. But it's not like Thor announced in the comics that he wanted to undergo a sex change operation. They just turned him into a woman from out of nowhere. I mean what's next? Are they gonna make it so Spider-Man was Uncle Ben's murderer all along? Are they gonna make it so Tony Stark had secretly been supplying Afghanistan with funds to build weapons of mass destruction? |
That's not what I got from your post either. The sentiment was "Look at all this ridiculous stuff happening at Marvel! Captain America being revealed to work for Hydra! Male characters being portrayed as women! What's next? Are they gonna make Spider-Man black? Or Iceman gay?", which as you probably know are changes that have also taken place and they were considered controversial choices, too, despite how not controversial it is to create entire worlds where nothing but white, straight, males exist. That's a terrifying message to anyone who's not in those groups, but no one is demanding an explanation about why that is. Just when that status quo is changed. And I mean, let's just be honest, all the backstory in the world explaining the changes isn't going to pacify some of these fans.
The problem here is that the list went from legitimate complaints about the story lines Marvel are coming up with - some of which are actually offensive such as what they're doing with Captain America -, to equating character changes made to represent a wider group of people and readers on par with those offensive changes. It's like I was saying earlier genderswapping =/= antisemitism. Plus, depicting the diversity of the world as it actually is doesn't need a set-up to me in the same way that explaining why Bruce Banner secretly plotting to expose his fellow Avengers to the same gamma radiation he was would need one.
Captain America being revealed to work for Hydra is ridiculous. Spider-Man being Uncle Ben's murderer all along is ridiculous. Tony Stark supplying Afghanistan with funds to build weapons of mass destruction is ridiculous. Thor - which if I remember right had became unworthy and a woman took his place - being portrayed as a woman is really not an outlandishly absurd idea when talking about a Norse God who lives in a space castle that wields a magic hammer that controls the weather  |
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