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Who is the main character of "Aladdin"?
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[quote="AladdinsGenie"]*is surprised Samantha hasn't said something yet* SA'LUK SUCKS!! There, she should be here any minute now :lol: I hope you guys are comfy cause this is long. I've been feeling Aladdiny all day :lol: It's like at first Aladdin has this great image of what Cassim was like before his "death". (It actually makes me wonder what exactly his mother or someone told him happened to his father. Especially with Cassim telling Aladdin's mother to give him the dagger once he was born) And he talks about how he wishes his father was here to see his wedding and what he's accomplished in life, give him tips, etc, etc.--A role I think Genie has filled in since he has known him, but it's never gonna be [i]his[/i] father, you know? Then he finds out he is still alive. Now he's not sure if he wants to know him because that image he has had in his head this whole time is wrong. The man he wanted to have show him how to raise a family ran away from his own before Aladdin was even born. Then he starts thinking about if Cassim even cared. But then Jasmine convinces him it's worth a shot and to think about all the things he can learn about his past--stuff he has been wanting to know for a while now. Then he mets him and almost looses him just as quick. Although it was a plan to keep Aladdin alive because he did intrude and was about to be killed on the spot, he did just put his son's life on the line, so I’d be pretty pissed too. :lol: I love the irony when Aladdin is climbing back up the cliff and he glares at the dagger. It’s like Cassim saved his life in more ways than one, but he looks pretty ticked when he does see it though. I’m guessing that’s because he didn’t expect to go there and have to kill someone just to talk to his father who is the LEADER OF THE FORTY THIEVES! You’d think he’d find another way to save his son, but since he was just called out as being weak, I guess that would be the best time to prove that he's not by putting his own son’s--who he has not seen in for 20 something years--life on the line. He then is introuduced to his father’s obsession with the Hand of Midas and getting his “ultimate treasure”, which is then followed by Cassim’s line that totally blows my mind: “You don't understand. You don't know what it's like to have nothing. To stare up at the palace and know you deserve more….to be called ‘street rat’.” Ok….so…how would he not know if Cassim’s who reason behind leaving was he wanted the best for his family, didn’t want to be poor anymore and wanting to change it for his family? Did he assume Aladdin has been taken well-care of his whole life and this whole “marry the princess” plan has been in effect forever? I’m wondering if Cassim would still have made that comment if he saw Aladdin in his street rat clothes. But yeah, then Aladdin openly accepts him into his life. He already starts with the dad calling and other typical father and son moments like talking about past grandfathers and to get carpet before he breaks his neck :lol: . Aladdin basically offers him a second chance to start his life in Agrabah again. So, Cassim isn’t so sure about letting some kid come into his life after all he has built, or going into Aladdin’s for that matter after all he has built, but then he is given the opportunity to be one step closer to his “ultimate treasure” by doing so, so he goes back. Then Cassim has a whole “Aladdin complex” of changing his clothes, impressing the royalty, making him out to be something he is not (something I think Aladdin would have been the first to be like ‘Dudes..this isn’t going to work’ :lol: ), all the while still having your true self shine, which in this case, is the king of thieves and he knows that. They BOTH know that, but Aladdin disreguarded it thinking that Cassim would change now. Aladdin then realizes why his father really came back once he is seized in the treasure room, which obviously wasn’t for him all the way. (I don’t think Cassim was looking for anything long term and didn’t except to get as close to Aladdin as he did. He was probably going to skip out once he got what he wanted again, but that’s just what I think. :lol:) This part is followed by GREAT Jasmine character development because if this would have happened a few years earlier, she would have bite his head off for lying again, but she doesn’t and instead asks him about it. So great! I also love how no one thinks to ask GENIE or IAGO if they knew, but it’s not like either one of them would have said something. But yeah, back on topic. This is about Aladdin and Cassim! :lol: And comes one of my personal favorite scenes when Aladdin is so disgusted by his father and how he almost ruined everything he’s been working for, that he is ready to let him out of his life just as easily as he let him in. (which again can be referred back to on how he grew up with people coming and going in his life and learning to let people go really fast) So, he has to revert back to his old “disobeying the law” self to let him back out of his life. Something I'm sure he was pissed about having to do-going back to his past and old ways to fix his future. Personally, I think it would have pissed him off even more knowing the father who came back for treasure and not him is in the dungeon in the same palace that he is now sultan over, so breaking him out would have been the best thing for both of them. After that is my favorite scene from KOT and Aladdin/Cassim interaction in general. Everything just hits the fan :lol: It’s almost as if Cassim expects Aladdin to just drop everything and travel around the desert as criminals, just as Aladdin expected Cassim to just drop everything and start-over in Agrabah earlier. And then this complex of love or money comes up again for Aladdin once again (See “Raiders of the Lost Shark”) and now for Cassim. Aladdin once again chooses Jasmine, of course, and Cassim chooses the money by taking the oracle (Which I want to know how he got!). Now, if this was the same Aladdin from the first movie…I think he would have left. He let Jasmine go at the end in the first movie, so it wouldn’t have been any harder if this situation happened then. Plus, he’s never had to care for another human being up until Jasmine, so continuing that wouldn’t have been all that hard. He’d be a little sad, yes, but would eventually let it go because he has a tendency to let people go easily. Aladdin also gives Cassim back the dagger that he hasn’t had to use UNTIL he met his father. It's almost one of those "I don't need your help, or this memory of you anymore so you can take it back". So great. But all of that isn’t before Aladdin takes the opportunity to tell him he will not run away from his problems like Cassim did with the family because things weren’t going right and he couldn’t take the pressure or the thought that he possibly failed at life. I guess Cassim figured the only way they’d truly be closer is if Aladdin “lived his life” so he’d know what it’s like, but Cassim doesn’t realize that in a way Aladdin has already and he has learned from it. But out of all of that, Aladdin shows Cassim what he should be showing him, which is to go back and face your problems no matter what. Deal with them. Don’t run away and hope they leave. Soo, sooo great. That, and Aladdin is probably pissed that he had two chances to go on his honeymoon and Cassim has singlehandedly ruined both ;) Aladdin goes back and faces the music, although I don’t think he had much music to face because everyone being there helped, but the sultan did applaude him for coming back reguardless. Then Iago shows up and tells him Cassim has been captured not too long after just departing ways, in which Aladdin really doesn’t gives a crap. It seems rathers cold, and it is, but I personally understand this because I’m like that too. Once I’ve made the decision for you to be out of my life-that’s it. Game over :lol:. It’s a little cut throat, but that’s just how I deal with people who I think are going to be a negative influence or impression on my life. You don’t need to be surrounded by that, you know? But yeah, back to them. :lol: He ultimately makes the decision to help him out because Cassim did save him a couple times, he wouldn't be able to live with himself knowing he could have done something and didn't, and he realized that now he was running away from his problems, which in a losely based sense was Cassim. But yeah, to make this short cause I think I just typed like 2 pages worth of me talking :lol:, Aladdin once again lets Cassim back in his life, but this time with looser expectations and no strings attached because that’s just how Cassim operates his own life. And Cassim finally realizes that Aladdin is his ultimate treasure and that he can be a part of his life and vice versa. He even came back to Agrabah to see Aladdin’s wedding knowing he was a wanted criminal, but just to show he did care. I love these guys. :D But yeah-no more talking for me for like…a week, :lol:[/quote]
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Princess of Agrabah
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:53 pm
Post subject:
Calluna wrote:
AladdinsGenie wrote:
Like, I can't hear Jasmine calling the sultan 'daddy'. You know why? Because she never has. It's ALWAYS been father-even when she was little. Part of her character is that she is a princess, so she has been raised to speak formally and address elders as such no matter who they are. It's like people just forget that and put what they'd say rather than what the character would say.
....I just ranted, didn't I?
LOL, that's something that gets me, too. Actually, I'll bet she used to call him "Papa"; she calls him that sometimes when she's upset.
Actually, I do happen to have a book where she calls him that XD.
AladdinsGenie
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:31 pm
Post subject:
Good ol dub overs
IRideAladdin'sCarpet
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:40 am
Post subject:
it's like those horrible asian movies where the mouths move randomly in chuinese or japanese, but there's english speaking over the other language.
Guest
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:06 pm
Post subject:
HeavensxJoke wrote:
You have to keep in mind that more than 1 animation team work on movies like these. So this may have been a mishap like that. In all three movies there are continuity problems, animation problems, etc. What about in the first movie when Jafar slams his staff on Carpet and Carpet still moves going through the non-moving staff? Nobody rags on about that. What about in the KOT, the scene where Jasmine is about to walk down the isle for the first time, birds fly down with a white carpet. In the shot where Jasmine walks down the isle, the carpet is gone? Many MANY bloopers.. Just remember... it's a hard job.
Actually in Kot Carpet was shown.. He was with Abu. When the trumpets blared.. Abu ran and climb on Carpet to get a better look. They were off the side because Abu asked Iago to come and watch the wedding...
In Kot, the birds are special added effect for the wedding scene. To make it magical.. As wedding tradition there's always a white sheet that is placed for the bride to walk down the aisle. It signifies the a walk from a girl into a married woman.. It's a wedding scene, people move around.
First movie when Jafar slams onto carpet and carpet is still moving. That's not a mistake.. Carpet has the flexibility to move, shape, like a blanket or rug. If someone puts pressure step a foot. Everywhere else is movable except for the spot that the pressure is set upon. Come on now. They had to make carpet believable. Carpet can't flat down and be still....
HeavensxJoke
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:54 pm
Post subject:
You have to keep in mind that more than 1 animation team work on movies like these. So this may have been a mishap like that. In all three movies there are continuity problems, animation problems, etc. What about in the first movie when Jafar slams his staff on Carpet and Carpet still moves going through the non-moving staff? Nobody rags on about that. What about in the KOT, the scene where Jasmine is about to walk down the isle for the first time, birds fly down with a white carpet. In the shot where Jasmine walks down the isle, the carpet is gone? Many MANY bloopers.. Just remember... it's a hard job.
AladdinsGenie
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:58 pm
Post subject:
I do that all the time
Calluna
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:26 am
Post subject:
At the moment I have nothing to add, except that I keep reading "HoM" as "House of Mouse" instead of "Hand of Midas".
Ariellen
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:11 am
Post subject:
Haha.
AladdinsGenie
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:35 pm
Post subject:
SalukFan wrote:
Don't mock the Sa'luk love. You
know
you want a hit.
*still waiting for the morning when she wakes up, looks at KOT poster, has no interest in Aladdin what so ever, looks at Sa'luk and says 'Damn, that mofo is fly. I wish I could tap that.'* /obscure AIM conversation reference
THAT will be the day
Salukfan
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:26 pm
Post subject:
Thanks to AG's badgering (
) I've been trying to respond the the rest of the posts. I only have one thing to say:
Don't mock the Sa'luk love. You
know
you want a hit.
Okay, maybe two
Quote:
I always figured Cassim never realized how recent Aladdin's engagement to Jasmine was. He'd only been living off the streets for what 2-3 years, but Cassim had no way of knowing it wasn't longer.
I don't think Cassim was all that interested in questioning Aladdin's life at that point. From the moment Aladdin defeated Sa'luk, Cassim was trying to get him to follow his quest for the HoM. There's a part of me that says his whole explaination of why he left was more about "make him feel bad about what happened to me and he'll help me!" Than anything else. He certainly gained Aladdin's sympathy.
AladdinsGenie
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:21 pm
Post subject:
*points to Samantha's post for everyone* Told yah she'd have a different interpretation!
This is what happens when you have an Aladdin fangirl and Cassim fangirl
Quote:
I'm here! I'm here! I know your Journal post was an elaborate attempt to lure me here.
Actually, I didn't think you'd read my journal. That was more of a "what the hell am I doing 3:30 at night" thing
Salukfan
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:03 pm
Post subject:
I was going to finish this and send it today, but I totally forget where I was going with the whole thing.
So, I'm just posting this as it is.
-----------------------------------------
Quote:
*is surprised Samantha hasn't said something yet* SA'LUK SUCKS!! There, she should be here any minute now
I'm here! I'm here! I know your Journal post was an elaborate attempt to lure me here.
Quote:
(It actually makes me wonder what exactly his mother or someone told him happened to his father. Especially with Cassim telling Aladdin's mother to give him the dagger once he was born)
I've often wondered about that too. I see Cassim as almost an Odysseus-level storyteller, able to come up with tales quickly and use them to pretty much get whatever he wants. I don't think it's overly far-fetched that Cassim would hide his true identity from his wife, especially if you believe, as some do, that his wife was a wealthy woman ala "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves". There's such bitterness in his "...to stare up at the palace and no you deserve more" speech that he might have felt the need to exaggerate his identity/make himself look better in order to gain any respect. So the person that Aladdin looked up to might not even be close to Cassim's true identity.
That's another issue I'm interested in---what Cassim told Sultan/Jasmine about who he was. I mean, it's likely to come up at some point. The Forty Thieves would need a good reason to make Cassim a "prisioner". That conversation would bring about a level of BS the likes of which you and I have never seen,
Quote:
The man he wanted to have show him how to raise a family ran away from his own before Aladdin was even born. ...But then Jasmine convinces him it's worth a shot and to think about all the things he can learn about his past--stuff he has been wanting to know for a while now.
I always interpreted his quote about the dagger to mean that Aladdin was already born when he left. *Shrugs* But, man, the way Jasmine built up how great Cassim must be really ups Aladdin's pain when he meets him. It's a lot like the scene in HoND when the Gargoyles sing "A Guy Like You" to Quasi, then Esmeralda and Phoebus come in and start kissing in front of Quasi. Just...ouch.
Quote:
You’d think he’d find another way to save his son, but since he was just called out as being weak, I guess that would be the best time to prove that he's not by putting his own son’s--who he has not seen in for 20 something years--life on the line.
I think that Cassim's decision to initate the Challenge was more about getting rid of Sa'luk than saving Aladdin. Cassim could have gone the mercy route--actually, I believe that he would have, had Sa'luk not spoken up. When he does speak up, Cassim realizes that the men are starting to turn on him a bit, and see the truth in what Sa'luk is saying. To sustain his power, Cassim initated the challenge, knowing that Sa'luk would bite in order to show him up. I don't think it was a reckless decision as it relates to Aladdin, though. According to Kapok, Aladdin is famous throughout the desert and Cassim knew that he could find a way to defeat Sa'luk. During the challenge, however, Sa'luk hurts Aladdin and Cassim realizes that he shouldn't have thrown Aladdin into that conflict.
I think when Aladdin climbs up after "killing" Sa'luk, he realizes that Cassim had used him.
Quote:
“You don't understand. You don't know what it's like to have nothing. To stare up at the palace and know you deserve more….to be called ‘street rat’.” Ok….so…how would he not know if Cassim’s who reason behind leaving was he wanted the best for his family, didn’t want to be poor anymore and wanting to change it for his family?
Cassim's speech about being called "street rat" and wanting "the best" for his family don't necessarily mean the same thing. Yes, he was poor, but, to me, the search for the HoM says that he was more interested in being the biggest thing in town then providing for his family. There's several points in the movie where his motivations are more important than everyone elses. The wedding raid-- the whole thing was designed to give him a chance to get what he wanted; the Forty Thieves were glorified decoys (sorry, that's my Sa'luk fandom coming in), the challenge--getting rid of Sa'luk more important that protecting Aladdin, going back to Agrabah---the Oracle more important than his son, etc. Now ,I don't think he deliberately stepped on Aladdin's heart to get to the Oracle, as he seemed surprised when Aladdin tried to run to him after his arrest, but anyway...
Cassim just doesn't see the big picture. It's about his pain, his struggle, his journey... I don't think he considered what his leaving would do to his wife and son. Especially if his wife was already wealthy--they would get by, and he could return and make them the wealthiest people in Agrabah. When he returns to Agrabah, however, he realizes that his wife is gone and that he failed, as a husband, father, and treasure-hunter, which adds to the shame factor that we see when he speaks with Iago.
I think Cassim has a love-hate relationship with his status in the group. He obviously enjoys it, which we see during "Welcome to the Forty Thieves", and it's also a comfort zone for him, the one place where he doesn't have to hide his identity. It's the code change, however, that makes me think that there is some shame in there. I don't believe that he was king right away-- I think he spent years as just a member of the group and was forced to do the violent crimes that he bans when he gets his power. He doesn't want to be in Aladdin's world because he doesn't feel as if he is good enough; not only did he fail to get the best for his family, but it's the way in which he tried to get respect that makes him feel negatively. He becomes king and changes the code, no longer having to do the crimes that shame him, making his methods seem...purer, I guess. His wife is dead, but he struggles to prove that his quest wasn't totally in vain; he won't feel like as much of a failure. His greed keeps him in, but he (tries, at least) to justify it. The same greed sends him to Agrabah.
Minerva
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:08 pm
Post subject:
I always figured Cassim never realized how recent Aladdin's engagement to Jasmine was. He'd only been living off the streets for what 2-3 years, but Cassim had no way of knowing it wasn't longer. That Aladdin had actually spent most of his life on the streets.
AladdinsGenie
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:07 pm
Post subject:
Yet he was suprised Aladdin had a Genie, who could have given him more riches than the sultan has.
Calluna
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:03 pm
Post subject:
AladdinsGenie wrote:
Yeah, now that you mention it she has said something about that. She's been on a Sa'luk kick right now (there's a big surprise
) so that's all I remember at the moment
.
Now I'm wondering how long they were actually "poor" before Momma Molinaro's (
) death, or if that came afterwards. *ponders that*
And even that doesn't explain why he wasn't surprised that Aladdin was marrying the princess. I don't think she was *that* rich.
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