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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| AladdinsGenie wrote: |
| Cassim’s line that totally blows my mind: “You don't understand. You don't know what it's like to have nothing. To stare up at the palace and know you deserve more….to be called ‘street rat’.” Ok….so…how would he not know if Cassim’s who reason behind leaving was he wanted the best for his family, didn’t want to be poor anymore and wanting to change it for his family? Did he assume Aladdin has been taken well-care of his whole life and this whole “marry the princess” plan has been in effect forever? I’m wondering if Cassim would still have made that comment if he saw Aladdin in his street rat clothes. |
My own backstory idea for Cassim is based more on the story of Ali Baba (and I believe Samantha's is, too), in which Cassim married a woman who had more money than him, and in that case I can see how he'd probably still be getting a lot of crap from his in-laws about being a "street rat" and how they're supporting his family more than he is. And also in that case he'd think Aladdin and his mom would be able to live fine without him around for a little while... |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, now that you mention it she has said something about that. She's been on a Sa'luk kick right now (there's a big surprise  ) so that's all I remember at the moment .
Now I'm wondering how long they were actually "poor" before Momma Molinaro's ( ) death, or if that came afterwards. *ponders that* |
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Ariellen
Scourge of the Desert
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| AladdinsGenie wrote: |
| She's been on a Sa'luk kick right now (there's a big surprise ) |
That's an incred---I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise! What are we gonna do? We've got a big problem here, a big...
Um...yeah. |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Disney Princess wrote: |
| That's an incred---I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise! What are we gonna do? We've got a big problem here, a big.. |
*closes your mouth* Yeeeeees  |
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Husse
Genie of da Pibb
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3099
Location: Kentucky (fried chicken and a PI-ZZA HUT!)
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Seek thee out the Cassim fan in the rough! 
_________________
You can never have too much Baklava.
NO YOU CAN'T!
YES I CAAAAAAAAAAAN!
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| AladdinsGenie wrote: |
Yeah, now that you mention it she has said something about that. She's been on a Sa'luk kick right now (there's a big surprise ) so that's all I remember at the moment .
Now I'm wondering how long they were actually "poor" before Momma Molinaro's ( ) death, or if that came afterwards. *ponders that* |
And even that doesn't explain why he wasn't surprised that Aladdin was marrying the princess. I don't think she was *that* rich. |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Yet he was suprised Aladdin had a Genie, who could have given him more riches than the sultan has. |
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Minerva
Streetrat
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Aladdin's Hovel
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I always figured Cassim never realized how recent Aladdin's engagement to Jasmine was. He'd only been living off the streets for what 2-3 years, but Cassim had no way of knowing it wasn't longer. That Aladdin had actually spent most of his life on the streets. |
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Salukfan
Tiger-Clawed Thief
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1991
Location: Butler, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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I was going to finish this and send it today, but I totally forget where I was going with the whole thing. So, I'm just posting this as it is.
-----------------------------------------
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| *is surprised Samantha hasn't said something yet* SA'LUK SUCKS!! There, she should be here any minute now |
I'm here! I'm here! I know your Journal post was an elaborate attempt to lure me here.
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| (It actually makes me wonder what exactly his mother or someone told him happened to his father. Especially with Cassim telling Aladdin's mother to give him the dagger once he was born) |
I've often wondered about that too. I see Cassim as almost an Odysseus-level storyteller, able to come up with tales quickly and use them to pretty much get whatever he wants. I don't think it's overly far-fetched that Cassim would hide his true identity from his wife, especially if you believe, as some do, that his wife was a wealthy woman ala "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves". There's such bitterness in his "...to stare up at the palace and no you deserve more" speech that he might have felt the need to exaggerate his identity/make himself look better in order to gain any respect. So the person that Aladdin looked up to might not even be close to Cassim's true identity.
That's another issue I'm interested in---what Cassim told Sultan/Jasmine about who he was. I mean, it's likely to come up at some point. The Forty Thieves would need a good reason to make Cassim a "prisioner". That conversation would bring about a level of BS the likes of which you and I have never seen,
| Quote: |
| The man he wanted to have show him how to raise a family ran away from his own before Aladdin was even born. ...But then Jasmine convinces him it's worth a shot and to think about all the things he can learn about his past--stuff he has been wanting to know for a while now. |
I always interpreted his quote about the dagger to mean that Aladdin was already born when he left. *Shrugs* But, man, the way Jasmine built up how great Cassim must be really ups Aladdin's pain when he meets him. It's a lot like the scene in HoND when the Gargoyles sing "A Guy Like You" to Quasi, then Esmeralda and Phoebus come in and start kissing in front of Quasi. Just...ouch.
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| You’d think he’d find another way to save his son, but since he was just called out as being weak, I guess that would be the best time to prove that he's not by putting his own son’s--who he has not seen in for 20 something years--life on the line. |
I think that Cassim's decision to initate the Challenge was more about getting rid of Sa'luk than saving Aladdin. Cassim could have gone the mercy route--actually, I believe that he would have, had Sa'luk not spoken up. When he does speak up, Cassim realizes that the men are starting to turn on him a bit, and see the truth in what Sa'luk is saying. To sustain his power, Cassim initated the challenge, knowing that Sa'luk would bite in order to show him up. I don't think it was a reckless decision as it relates to Aladdin, though. According to Kapok, Aladdin is famous throughout the desert and Cassim knew that he could find a way to defeat Sa'luk. During the challenge, however, Sa'luk hurts Aladdin and Cassim realizes that he shouldn't have thrown Aladdin into that conflict.
I think when Aladdin climbs up after "killing" Sa'luk, he realizes that Cassim had used him.
| Quote: |
| “You don't understand. You don't know what it's like to have nothing. To stare up at the palace and know you deserve more….to be called ‘street rat’.” Ok….so…how would he not know if Cassim’s who reason behind leaving was he wanted the best for his family, didn’t want to be poor anymore and wanting to change it for his family? |
Cassim's speech about being called "street rat" and wanting "the best" for his family don't necessarily mean the same thing. Yes, he was poor, but, to me, the search for the HoM says that he was more interested in being the biggest thing in town then providing for his family. There's several points in the movie where his motivations are more important than everyone elses. The wedding raid-- the whole thing was designed to give him a chance to get what he wanted; the Forty Thieves were glorified decoys (sorry, that's my Sa'luk fandom coming in), the challenge--getting rid of Sa'luk more important that protecting Aladdin, going back to Agrabah---the Oracle more important than his son, etc. Now ,I don't think he deliberately stepped on Aladdin's heart to get to the Oracle, as he seemed surprised when Aladdin tried to run to him after his arrest, but anyway...
Cassim just doesn't see the big picture. It's about his pain, his struggle, his journey... I don't think he considered what his leaving would do to his wife and son. Especially if his wife was already wealthy--they would get by, and he could return and make them the wealthiest people in Agrabah. When he returns to Agrabah, however, he realizes that his wife is gone and that he failed, as a husband, father, and treasure-hunter, which adds to the shame factor that we see when he speaks with Iago.
I think Cassim has a love-hate relationship with his status in the group. He obviously enjoys it, which we see during "Welcome to the Forty Thieves", and it's also a comfort zone for him, the one place where he doesn't have to hide his identity. It's the code change, however, that makes me think that there is some shame in there. I don't believe that he was king right away-- I think he spent years as just a member of the group and was forced to do the violent crimes that he bans when he gets his power. He doesn't want to be in Aladdin's world because he doesn't feel as if he is good enough; not only did he fail to get the best for his family, but it's the way in which he tried to get respect that makes him feel negatively. He becomes king and changes the code, no longer having to do the crimes that shame him, making his methods seem...purer, I guess. His wife is dead, but he struggles to prove that his quest wasn't totally in vain; he won't feel like as much of a failure. His greed keeps him in, but he (tries, at least) to justify it. The same greed sends him to Agrabah.
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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*points to Samantha's post for everyone* Told yah she'd have a different interpretation! This is what happens when you have an Aladdin fangirl and Cassim fangirl
| Quote: |
| I'm here! I'm here! I know your Journal post was an elaborate attempt to lure me here. |
Actually, I didn't think you'd read my journal. That was more of a "what the hell am I doing 3:30 at night" thing |
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Salukfan
Tiger-Clawed Thief
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1991
Location: Butler, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to AG's badgering ( ) I've been trying to respond the the rest of the posts. I only have one thing to say:
Don't mock the Sa'luk love. You know you want a hit.
Okay, maybe two
| Quote: |
| I always figured Cassim never realized how recent Aladdin's engagement to Jasmine was. He'd only been living off the streets for what 2-3 years, but Cassim had no way of knowing it wasn't longer. |
I don't think Cassim was all that interested in questioning Aladdin's life at that point. From the moment Aladdin defeated Sa'luk, Cassim was trying to get him to follow his quest for the HoM. There's a part of me that says his whole explaination of why he left was more about "make him feel bad about what happened to me and he'll help me!" Than anything else. He certainly gained Aladdin's sympathy.
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"This cow's been covered with flour!" |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SalukFan wrote: |
| Don't mock the Sa'luk love. You know you want a hit. |
*still waiting for the morning when she wakes up, looks at KOT poster, has no interest in Aladdin what so ever, looks at Sa'luk and says 'Damn, that mofo is fly. I wish I could tap that.'* /obscure AIM conversation reference
THAT will be the day
Last edited by AladdinsGenie on Sun May 15, 2005 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ariellen
Scourge of the Desert
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Haha. |
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| At the moment I have nothing to add, except that I keep reading "HoM" as "House of Mouse" instead of "Hand of Midas". |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I do that all the time |
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